Unbanned and I come to this


Re: Suggested diet for an African Ringneck
Sent: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:55 pm
by ParrotsForLife

Wolf wrote:
Brandon. I told you to stop this argumentative behavior. I come on the forum this evening and you are starting it in the very first posting that I read and then you are continueing with it in the PM's So why don't we just ban you for a week and allow you some time to think about your behavior on the forum.

Banning for a week was not the right thing to do because I know I did nothing wrong I didn't continue it in Pm's Paj continued to message me and I told her to stop so how am I the bad one.Tielfan told you all a lot while I was away and still you cant see her information is right but no Paj doesn't wanna admit what she is doing is wrong and I dont think you can either.

I don't know what happened in the PMs, but you did get snarky with them in the public thread so it wasn't completely unjustified. IMO it's best to always be polite in factual discussions, even when the other person is being a jerk. You keep the sympathy of the audience that way, and it makes it hard for the admins to shut you up without looking intolerant. It's better to show that your opponent is wrong by sticking to the subject and providing evidence. You have a big disadvantage because you're young and don't have enough 'book learning' and experience to really dish it out. But if you keep on researching things and trying to figure out whether a piece of information is fact or fiction, you'll be a force to be reckoned with in a few years.

Some people will never admit that they're wrong. It's called intellectual dishonesty when that happens, or when they pull other tricks like refusing to accept valid evidence, ignoring relevant questions and requests for evidence, trying to change the subject, or launching a personal attack to try and distract you. There's no point trying to make them admit defeat because it ain't gonna happen. But you can make them look bad to anyone with half a brain who's watching, so that's a goal you can shoot for. Most of the time your opponent knows that you did it too, whether they try to cover it up by claiming victory or not.

P.S. on Jessi's post about scientific papers on that other group:

I think you know this already, but the findings in scientific papers remain valid until new information comes out that renders them obsolete. I've read papers written in the 1920s that are still in full force because nothing has happened since then to prove them wrong.

You can't put too much faith in a single study, because preliminary findings often turn out to be wrong when other studies are performed (especially larger, longer-term studies). It points to what MIGHT be true rather than what is absolutely true beyond a shadow of a doubt. But it's the best we've got until more information becomes available.

Ok I said nothing to Paj since I got un banned but yet she decides to Pm me to remind me Carolyn's information is wrong lol she's so childish does she think I wasn't watching everything that happened while I was banned lol.

It sounds like she's pretty desperate to make people think she was right lol.

It looks like the discussion has fizzled out now. Wolf has been there since I posted last but he didn't comment. At the end of the day, I'm still the only person who presented any evidence at all about the so-called dangers of protein, and every shred of evidence that I found said they were wrong. I don't cherry-pick either. I'm interested in learning the truth not in winning arguments, and if I had found something in their favor I would have posted it. Wolf's silence is really stranger than Paj's blustering. Doesn't he remember ANYTHING about his own research that would let him say "I'm working from memory and might be wrong but blah blah blah"? Is he having doubts about his own information but doesn't want to say anything? Does he just not care?

There is one problem associated with a high-protein diet and that's gout, but they never mentioned that. Seeds aren't considered to be a high protein diet anyway, the problem with having an excessive amount of seed in the diet is that there's too many calories and not enough of other things including complete protein.

It isn't like wolf to not care. It's quite possible that he's trying to go through his sources to find something that could properly counter your argument, but with nothing coming up.

I'm wondering if I should post a reminder on that thread to not confuse fat with protein, because I'm wondering if Paj doesn't have the two mixed up. She told me that too much protein will give a bird "fatty liver disease", and that honestly doesn't make sense to me.

Except for the things that aren't particularly related to diet at all, every problem that they listed on that thread is attributed to high calorie consumption not high protein consumption. Obesity, fatty liver disease, high cholesterol, cardiovascular problems - that's all linked to fat/carbs not to protein. To the extent that there's any evidence, it all says that protein actually helps prevent/eliminate these problems, mainly by reducing calorie consumption. I pointed this out multiple times and provided lots of links, but they paid no attention.

Hormone levels aren't linked to any specific component of the diet (as in fat, protein, minerals etc), and aggression isn't linked to diet at all except as a side effect of high hormone levels. The idea that it matters what time of day a bird eats a specific food is so bizarre that I don't even know how to google for it.

P.S. It's up to you to decide what you want to do or say over there - I have no opinion on it either way because it's not my business. I don't have any current plans to say anything else on the thread. That could change if somebody coughs up some actual evidence that I can discuss, but I don't expect that to happen.

Here are a couple of good veterinary links on the causes of fatty liver disease:

Clinical Avian Medicine, Chapter 15, page 4 and 5 of the pdf (444-445 according to the page numbering of the book), under the heading Hepatic Lipidosis: http://avianmedicine.net/publication_ca ... -medicine/

It says that excessive dietary fat and carbohydrates may be responsible. Says that DEFICIENCY of certain dietary amino acids can cause it. Not a word about excessive amino acids.

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/dvms/fattyliver.html Now here's a dense wall of text lol. Look for the paragraph that starts with "Parrots suffering from hepatic lipidosis are typically obese." It says that seeds are high in fat and low in some essential dietary amino acids, and it's implied that this is a problem.

I was bored, so I decided to read the parrot wizard forum stuff this thread is about. I hadn't read it before so I gave it a try. I realized Pajarita was just critizicing everything and everyone and never put any actual evidence as Carolyn pointed out. I got so mad when she said that Carolyn just came in judging everyone and saying that she was better than them, when she was actually not doing that at all. I stopped reading though, my brain can't stand so much information.